Episode Transcript
[00:00:08] Speaker A: You're listening to the Brand Alchemy Podcast with your hosts Jared Asher and Jared Break, where we uncover the stories and truths of real entrepreneurs and their journeys of growth and brand transformation. For more information, go to www.timelesscreative.com.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: Welcome back to the Brand Alchemy Podcast where we uncover the stories of entrepreneurs who've transformed their visions into a reality. I'm Jared Asher Herring, joined by my co host, Jared Break.
[00:00:41] Speaker C: Hey everyone. Jared here. Great to have you here for another episode today.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Each week we share the breakthrough moments, hard won victories and strategic insights that turn ambitious founders and market leaders. According to Ahrefs, the leading search data center in the world, approximately 90% of all website pages get zero organic search traffic from Google, making them ineffective and invisible online. They're sabotaging themselves without even realizing it. That is due to poor SEO and unclear communication and their competitors are stealing all the attention. That's where Jared and I come in. We're brand marketing architects and we help growing businesses claim their market share online. Here's how we can help you fix that problem. Each week we sit down with businesses to unpack their business, what's holding them back and put together a master plan that helps them generate new leads, sales and customers on Google. So if that's you and you feel like you've got a problem in that area, all you need to do is reach out to us on www.timelesscreative.com boardroom. Okay, guys, let's get into another episode on a beautiful Monday morning. Today we've got a very special guest from Sydney. Originally from London, goes by the name of Elizabeth Walker. She's the founder of Doyen Prince, a boutique communications agency that specializes in luxury and lifestyle brands. With 20 years of global experience, expertise in the luxury industry, Elizabeth has built a very strong reputation for delivering strategic and authentic communication solutions. Over the years, she's worked with some significant brands such as Bell and Ross, Kristen laboutin, Olibar Brown, and the world residencies at sea. She's also worked with luxury brands such as Gucci, Cartier and ysl.
So welcome Elizabeth. How are we today?
[00:02:33] Speaker D: Hello, Jared.
[00:02:34] Speaker B: Lovely to have you here this morning.
[00:02:36] Speaker D: Thanks for having me.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: I hear the. I hear the weather down in Sydney is absolutely brutal, atrocious.
We're just saying before actually, before we actually had this call that we just had it up here in Queensland. So now you're copying it. We.
[00:02:49] Speaker D: Yeah, it's been pretty bad. But you know, as you know, I'm from London originally, so I'm quite used to it being like this, a bit rainy and miserable.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah. But anyhow, we. Look, we wanted to understand. For the listeners that are tuning here today, Liz, share us a bit of. Bit of. About your background, your wealth of knowledge, and how you essentially achieved the success you've had at doy and PR and beyond.
[00:03:16] Speaker D: Right. Okay.
Well, originally I'm from London and I started off after university, believe it or not, working for a hedge fund, and quickly decided after about a year that it wasn't really that creative outlet I needed and that I. And, you know, some of the clients there were some of the large luxury holding companies, and I decided that that was the route I wanted to go in. And I ended up moving across to Gucci, which was, I think, PPR then, but then became kering later.
And, you know, that kind of formed for me the focus on communications. I worked with a really interesting Devil Wears Prada character there, and I thought she was brilliant, actually spoke six languages, was, you know, had a huge network and wealth of knowledge and was pretty inspirational. So she was probably one of the main people that forged this path for me and then subsequently worked luxury goods for, you know, long time. And I'd say Now, yeah, about 20 years.
And after, you know, carrying an enrichment group, I decided on a personal level that I wanted to live overseas.
And I was told, actually by. I remember a director telling me that I wasn't senior enough to be able to transfer to an international location. So I thought, all right, I'm just going to do it myself then. So do you all. I'm off. So I did, and I ended up traveling around the world for quite, you know, some time. And then I came to be in Sydney and reached out to a contact in London and yeah, finally found something in the form of the Rob Report magazine over here, which we launched from scratch in the market. And then I kind of got a taste, I think, for the startup. I mean, look, World Report has a global masthead. It's not actually a startup, but in this market it was for us and kind of, you know, building the product and the credibility and everything. And I got a bit of a flavor for that. So then I set up my own business afterwards, which is now, as, you know, doy npr.
So. But we can, we can talk about the challenge.
But in a nutshell, that's kind of how I got to be in this position.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, because you. We were just talking before, Liz, you've been in Australia for 12 years now, is that. That's correct.
[00:06:13] Speaker D: 10. 10 and a bit, I think yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: So how have you found being in Australia, living in Sydney and then obviously working in London and working in big brands over there against say Australia and then starting your own company here in Australia? What have you found on a lifestyle level but also on a professional level, how's the, the differences between the two countries?
[00:06:36] Speaker D: Well, actually I do find Australia a bit parochial by comparison and you know, but I'm here for a reason. Right. The lifestyle is what keeps people here and I think in, in a business sense, what I found is that there is much more emphasis on the work life balance which I didn't have in the UK and when I was working in the, in the States, you know, it's just not really, it's not really the same.
But we also don't have really pretty beaches to go to at lunchtime either.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: So.
[00:07:12] Speaker D: You do feel. Well, I feel like I'm a little bit removed from the rest of the world sometimes because we are really quite far away.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:23] Speaker D: Looking at the news, I now I find myself logging on to BBC just to make sure that I can see the actual world news instead of what has kind of been filtered through for me. Yes. So, yeah, there's a little bit of that isolation but, but you know, all in all I think it's just a really nice, beautiful place to be and work from.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And what about in terms of, you know, professionally working with some of these bigger brands and we'll talk about who they are in a moment, more detail because I know you mentioned a few names there and I've got some questions around that as well. But we're talking about obviously being in Australia because I've worked here in Australia, obviously born here in Australia and I moved to, I moved on the other side. I went to London as did Jared and so we've done the opposite and we lived a, over there for a couple of years and I, I've personally found working in London to be very, very different to working in Australia in a sense where I found London to be the sort of place where it seems to be a bit more relaxed.
You know, senior operatives, executives seem to be a bit more sort of, a bit more chilled in terms of how they delegate different roles and just the leadership seems to be a bit different as well. Management. How have you personally found, say the differences between, between both countries in terms of leadership, management, senior executive level?
[00:08:51] Speaker D: That's really interesting that you, you have that take on it. I'd like to explore that. I, I mean I only had, I've only had one person I've reported to in Australia and we got on famously and his approach was quite relaxed actually.
You know, he's very, he was very commercially focused. So so long as you're, you know, bringing in the bacon, so to speak, then you can kind of do whatever. But yeah, I, I actually find it a bit more relaxed here. So. Yeah, that's interesting for your, your experience. Maybe that's kind of a, a deliberate, you know, open door policy thing that they, they try and do in the uk.
What kind of industry was that?
[00:09:39] Speaker B: That was. Yeah, we're talking 10 years ago as well, Liz. That was actually not a bit longer than that. Probably 12 years now. 13 years. That was in working for the underground. I worked for the underground, yeah. Mind you, I walked in essentially off the street and was a referral and I got the job setting up security cameras within, within the, you know, the first initial discussion. I said I wasn't from Australia and I said, brilliant. We need someone to start tomorrow night. Can you start? Yes. Sweet. So I started straight away and I was with them for best part of maybe a year or so. But it was so easy and I found, you know, the whole employment process just sort so simple and so easy and yeah, when, and when the nights you couldn't work because of weather conditions and so on, they just send us home. Just seems so easy.
[00:10:28] Speaker D: I had a very different experience than you did, but I think that perhaps it's the industry, I'm not sure, but I mean, I wouldn't. Working for like, you know, these large luxury holding companies.
Yeah, I mean I didn't have a vacation for three years. I think for one of them it was, it was very intense.
Yeah, I definitely didn't have that kind of relaxed work feel in any of my roles in London.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I suppose you're working in, you know, with big luxury brands. They have a certain way, don't they? I guess it might be the industry as a whole. Perhaps.
Yeah. I mean, just going into that now, you know, you, you've worked with some big brands. You know, Kering is the mother company of Gucci and I don't know how to pronounce this, but I think it's VEZ Saint Laurent. Am I correct? With the. Yeah, yep. And then you've got. Who else is there?
[00:11:33] Speaker D: Alexander McQueen, which when I was there was considered an emerging brand. Yeah, my age, I think, and, and well, Stella McCartney was, was there then Balenciaga.
So, you know, some big names under that one umbrella for sure. Yeah.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: And I know you've had been working with Richmond as well. And they are the mother company of Cartier.
They're a Swiss based company, aren't they, Liz?
[00:11:59] Speaker D: Right, yeah.
[00:12:01] Speaker B: So. So being that you've worked with these big multinational luxury brands, how have you found that's garnered your experience and expertise in the luxury industry for the business that you're running now, which is Doyen Prior?
[00:12:17] Speaker D: I think, because I was working at that level in head office with, you know, like at Kering, it was the president of, you know, of Gucci Group at the time and the same with Richmond Group. I was working in a strategy division. Primarily. It's for me it's all about the business. You know, it's not about the fashion, it's not about the communications, it's about the business and the commercial reality of that.
And so that's been my biggest learning, I think, and take away because there are so many moving parts, especially when you're looking at an overarching strategy for, you know, a number of brands. There might be 20 brands in the portfolio and everyone's completely different. But, you know, the qualitative and quantitative objectives still remain. And the quantitative one obviously is, is, you know, revenue based and they've got a share price to keep.
And the qualitative one is all about brand perception and brand equity. So they, for me are the most important to parts of any business. So when I work with clients now, that's what I'm thinking about everything that's, you know, the PR aspect of the marketing funnel goes back to the commercial objectives, really and about, you know, using public relations to build awareness and positive brand perception. Because that is really what influences customer decisions as well. It puts, you know, positions the brand favorably in the minds of a potential customer. So I think that's kind of how it shaped my vision for what I'm doing now.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: And just going into like, like, what would you say that's, you know, a typical day for someone doing what you do looks like? Like, what do your days look like?
[00:14:09] Speaker D: I think that's laughable for anyone that works in pr.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: I love how you just laugh like that too, Liz.
[00:14:15] Speaker D: It's so funny to me, there is no. And, you know, it's so funny with people ask me what I do and I say, you know, pr. And a lot of people actually ask me what that means or what it is and they don't really understand fully what it is.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah.
[00:14:30] Speaker D: And I do think, you know, it is basically it's promotion. So you are promoting or building, you know, finding ways to promote a Business and build awareness and through, you know, channels, whether that's through podcasts or TV or radio or magazines, then, you know, that's really it. It's just finding those ways a day for me. Looks like it depends what kind of campaigns and things you're working on.
Sometimes you've got competing campaigns with clients, a lot of hard deadlines to get things out. So as an example, I'm working on a campaign for all the Bar Brown, the men's fashion label right now and they're based in the UK. They're pushing out their kind of high summer 25 collection. So I'm, you know, I'll be pitching that out to media probably most, most of the rest of today and just thinking strategically about how to position that and working with, you know, the right kind of media here strategically to reach the right high net worth audience who's going to purchase all of our brands. So most of today will be pitching another day will be, you know, in meetings with media because you've kind of, you've got to keep those relationships fresh.
And I'm in the business of relationships basically, whether it's clients or journalists or network and you know, some days it's organizing events and last week I had two photo shoots and an event. You know, it really is quite changeable but that's why I enjoy it and I think most people in, in this industry do because it's not so regimented.
[00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:25] Speaker C: That variety makes it makes it enjoyable. Would you say there's kind of levels of pressure in the role having to be able to sometimes maybe communicate your ideas and thoughts to kind of bigger brands which maybe they can't see the same vision.
[00:16:43] Speaker D: With bigger brands the struggle is always that they are governed at the top by lots of chiefs. So it's difficult to get a quick decision made.
I'm working with a big luxury car brand at the minute and that's been a bit of a struggle. You want things to be really done quickly and it can't be because of the chains of command.
That's always a bit challenging. And also because if they're, you know, got a global head office, this might be a small market for them in, you know, in Australia or apac and you know, things are different here and the customers are different and their needs, days are different. But it doesn't always get translated through the materials that we receive from head office. Unfortunately. I think with the smaller businesses I work with where they're the sole decision maker, things are a lot more swift and, and they're more interested to, you know, kind of listen, I think to what you've got to say. In my experience.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Interesting. Have you found, you know, with businesses and just talking about marketing as a whole now, PR marketing, there's all different types of strategies, digital, offline and, and etc. And so, you know, what we personally experienced is working with some, some brands and companies, they get to a certain point where they know they need to run a PR campaign. We position that to them as part of the overall growth strategy. But what we've typically found is they're more inclined to the business that we work with to run more digital based strategies such as advertising or running SEO campaigns, social campaigns and so on. But then when we talk about how we can expand their reach and awareness as a brand in terms of various parts of PR campaigns and strategies which does tie into the whole digital concept as well, they are sort of less inclined to want to pull the trigger on that.
Have you any experience as to why they might be thinking like that based on your knowledge in this area?
[00:18:55] Speaker D: Absolutely. It's because of the, the KPIs, the ROI. I mean it's like, you know, data tracking. I think they'd be more inclined to work on a digital basis because it's very easy and effective to see the results and the direct correlation between, you know, campaigns and results. Whereas with public relations, I think we've always kind of struggled with that and it's so hard, you know, say I'm taking on a new client and they say I can give an expected result, but I can't say exactly. This is how many impressions you'll get, this is how, this is how many pieces of editorial coverage you're going to get, etc. Because there are so many components. Like I said, public relations is just part of the marketing funnel. It isn't necessarily going to be a direct driver of revenue. Although as I mentioned, you know, it does drive sales through positioning of the brand.
So I think that is definitely kind of KPI driven.
And you know, I see that different PR agencies work in different ways. I used to try and abstain from an advertising value equivalent calculation because for pr, I think that's quite a messy calculation.
But I mean, usually with PR KPIs, there's like your potential reach, your coverage, your social engagement sentiment, share of voice, the quality of the coverage, your earned traffic, etc. And even kind of crisis communications comes into that.
So there are a lot, but they just feel a bit more fluffy. I think if you're putting an ad Online, you know how well it's going to do if you're doing it in a printed magazine? You know, unless you're putting a QR code or something in there, it's really hard to track it unless it's part of a bigger kind of campaign. And you can see that traffic driven. So I mean, sometimes with these things, I had a client as a hotel client and we did a, you know, we did a press for mail and you know, a campaign, media outreach. And now this doesn't all happen all the time because they don't necessarily tell you, but this particular client called me and said, okay, somebody has called up because they've seen the piece in Qantas magazine and they've booked 14 nights in the hotel. And I was like, well, that's fantastic because, you know, then you can see a direct correlation. So then the client's thrilled because they know it works.
So, yeah, I would say that that was probably why people would steer towards the digital side of things.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: And when it comes to the, the size of businesses that you found that typically want to engage with pr, like have you sort of worked out where that sort of sweet spot is, where they're at in their business journey or what size business they've got until they're like, yep, we need this?
[00:22:01] Speaker D: No, actually, I think it's, it's so diverse.
I mean, I wouldn't say that my business is set up to deal with a huge scale client, so I wouldn't be talking to them necessarily anyway because we're boutique. But it's usually monetary, I find. So when a client talks to you or a potential client is talking to you, it's because they think they want PR or they know they want priority. They don't always know what that means for them, but they get in contact when they can afford it, they want to know how much it's going to cost, then they come back to you.
That's usually what happens, I find, to be really frank.
But in terms of where they're at in their business, they have a product, they're not reaching customers. And sometimes I would say to them it's actually marketing that you need, not pr. And sometimes I say it's a combination or it's, you know, it's probably public relations you need for three months or six months and then you'll be able to do it through your marketing channels yourself. It's just that kind of initial burst that they need to reach customers. Basically.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I love the idea of how you go about what you do. I Mean, you very. You talk about strategy, as always, very strategic approach. And we've had many conversations because we've known each other for quite some time, Liz, and. And even tried to engage with different clients in the past as well. So I know that you work very strategically. So you want to walk us through a bit about your strategic process as to how do you. How do you go about a. Engaging with a client with a strategy that's tailored to them? Like what. What's your sort of. I guess your process is probably the question.
[00:23:55] Speaker D: Well, I try to. I wouldn't say I've perfected it yet, to be honest, but I told you because I worked at Richemont Group and I was in strategy there, I worked with some brilliant minds. You know, they're all ex Harvard and McKinsey, and they were so strategic. And I got involved with all this planning and it's just kind of a way of thinking that one develops that's much, you know, it's just a broader view. So now it probably slows me down a little bit, if I'm honest, to be too strategic. But my process would be to listen first of all to what the client wants and what they think they want and try and understand what their core objectives are. So if I can get them to actually articulate to me what are your top three objectives, and then I'll kind of pull out some more information from them. Because I do this myself with my company. You have all this information circulating around your head and you're not talking to anyone about it. So when they offload that, it's quite insightful, usually for them as well, because they say, oh, actually, I've said it out loud now. And. And that's actually potentially different to what I thought originally.
So that's probably the first part is just to nut out what the objectives are and the deep dive.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:25:19] Speaker D: And then kind of talk about all the different. Because I just see, you know, like magazines or anything else, it just is a channel. It is a channel to get to an end user to sell something, which sounds awfully human, but it is essentially. And so what I'm doing is just kind of creating a narrative and, you know, positioning it through these channels to reach target audience for. For the client. So it's thinking about what that customer or potential customer does in their leisure time. What do they listen to? Who are they? Like, building up kind of a customer profile so that we can, you know, work on how to position them. So say I've worked with a band in the past And I said, you know, how are we going to get. So obviously, you know, we want to get you gigs, we want to get you performing in front of people, we want to do brand deals because we want you to be promoted through other channels. Like it was, I think it was Wrangler or Levi's or something. You know, we want to create content, we want people downloading your music essentially to drive you up the charts. And do we speak to, you know, those businesses that are playing music in the gyms and in hotels and they have these curated lists, you know, things like that. So trying to think strategically and outside the box about every single angle as well as just, you know, a magazine interview or two, TV interview of how we can reach this customer basically.
So that's kind of my process.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And so your campaigns typically, obviously quite verse and varied.
So typically when you run a campaign, what is the duration of that campaign? Have you found?
[00:27:06] Speaker D: Typically I'd say my sweet spot is six months.
I, I, so I obviously worked on the brand side before when I was in the UK and have hired PR agencies and worked with a number of PR agencies. So on the other side of things and quite often I found that they would want you to be tied in obviously, you know, like everyone else or contract, like a 12 month retainer contract because it was all really about their cash flow, not what was in the best interest of me as the brand.
So I didn't want to things that way when I set up doing NPR because I don't think it's authentic. So it doesn't, it just doesn't sit well with all my values.
So often I've got an artist client now who's an absolute dream and she has kind of signed a contract for three months and I really think that we should work together for six because I think we're doing really good things together. But that's her call. So it's, you know, there's a clause, it's an out if you don't want to. But I suspect that we should. But after that I don't think she'll need me. So, you know, it could be a sporadic campaign that she wants to do or an art piece or something, but there isn't really that need state, so I don't really see the point. Some brands, absolutely, they've got new, like all of our brand newness all the time, seasonal campaigns and things like that. It really depends on the client for them. They need people PR on retainer because they have so much information to share with the media. But if you find that you're kind of creating those narratives all the time, it, you know, it just doesn't feel authentic at all. And just, you know, having someone there to, to put money in your, your bank and they're not benefiting and it won't end well between. Because it's, you know, it's about relationships.
[00:29:01] Speaker B: Absolutely. So when you're working with. Oh, you go. Jared.
[00:29:04] Speaker C: Yeah, I was just going to ask, just in regards to, I guess, traditional media and, you know, people talking about it dying, would you say, where would you say the state of that is? Is it dying? Is it evolving? And how does that if it does at all impact what you do or change your process?
[00:29:21] Speaker D: I think that's crap, to be honest.
You know, I think that, yes, the way that we consume information has changed because most of it now, let's be honest, is through social media.
But that doesn't mean to say there isn't still a customer who's buying a printed publication. It happens all the time.
And, you know, like as an example, the afr. The AFR here for all of my clients has been the most effective commercially. People buy off the page, so it works. The Rob Report, again, you know, it's a coffee table book. There is nothing that I've come across in my 20 years that rivals the Rob Report in terms of the buying power that these customers have, especially in the US market.
So I think that there is a, you know, a need for them still and desire for them, but maybe, maybe not your everyday magazine and maybe not the ones that are aimed at a used market because they're not going into the, know, news agents to purchase them anymore. So, yes, it has changed, but yeah, it just really depends on, on the publication and the title and, and yes, you know, brands like Vogue, obviously it has the most infamous masthead in the world probably, but they also have had to, you know, be agile with their strategy and diversify, you know, a bit. And in terms of, you know, how their, all their revenue streams basically have probably developed quite a lot. But, and yeah, you're trying to capture the reader or potential reader or next generation of reader in a different way. And, and they are, you know, they're obviously across social media as well because there is still the customer like myself who go and buy a Vogue and then there's the, you know, generations below who are just wanting to interact through video content online. So I, I think it's just, it's just different now.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: The whole landscape has changed quite a bit over the last sort of 10, 10 years or so, maybe longer now. Hey, hey, Liz.
[00:31:40] Speaker D: Yeah, for sure, Absolutely. Well, we got that too when we launched the robber port here and that was in2015, I think, or 16.
We were told the same thing. You know, there's been such a decline in sales in print and you know, etc. Etc. But you've just got to really understand the consumer and what they want and try and target them. I mean, we were strategic with that too in terms of, you know, how we, how they came into contact the magazine. So obviously we had them in news agents and the advertisers want to know that they're in news agents and it's a bit of a catch 22 there. And we, but we would work with, you know, super yacht companies or Gulfstream aircraft or, you know, Ferrari and it would go out to the Ferrari owners or, you know, so it was, it was trying to be strategic with our distribution strategy so we could cleverly reach the right audience. But people, like I said, you know, people are only going to advertise in the magazine if it's going to an audience that they can convert and they want to know that people are going to the news agents and actually paying whatever the COVID price is for it as well so that they're engaged enough rather than it just being a free distribution. So like I said, a bit of catch 22, but you can, you can be clever about it.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: Just talking about the, the, the industry, luxury and, or lifestyle. How have you found some of these big multinational brands, even including some of the brands you do work with personally, such as, such as Gucci and, and others. How have you found these brands in terms of their strategy? You mentioned it before, but things have changed there. How they personally adopted to the digital era, you think?
[00:33:41] Speaker D: Well, when I again show my age, unfortunately when I was at Gucci, when I first started at Gucci, there wasn't an E commerce platform at all. So seen a lot of changes and advancements from them literally just having bricks and mortar stores and those, you know, opening and closing and then getting onto E commerce.
And that obviously was a complete game changer. I mean, I remember when Chanel refused to go online and they said no, you know, a Chanel customer must walk in the door to try on a Chanel piece. That quickly changed and, and so, and I've seen especially with Gucci and, and when they'd introduced, you know, a new designer like Alessandro Micelli and the social media presence that he had and then, you know, trying to talk to the next generations and make it kind of more accessible luxury like, you know, doing watches for skateboarders and, you know, that kind of cool factor that Gucci had never really had when I was there, at least.
And yeah, they, I think they've been really agile and very clever about how they're targeting the next generation. Thinking about, you know, these people buying into brands now care about their, you know, their brand, their. Sorry, their carbon footprint.
They care about what the brands care about.
And so they've, I think they've been really good at that actually.
Gucci is a brand that I'm quite passionate about. You know, it was, it was, it was my favorite job in the world, to be honest. And I think I watch them, my cohort, to see what they're doing and I think, I think that it's fascinating in a really positive way. And some of the other brands too. I mean, there's, there's a, they've never stopped working, you know, with ambassadors and celebrities and. Because these people, you know, endorse the product to millions of people and if they've got these kind of, you know, shared beliefs and their contributions back to society and back to the planet and, you know, that's, that's really what people want to see now.
And they're being sustainable, they're being, you know, conscious. They're conscious brands. So I think that they've, they've had such an evolution, not just through the, you know, the channels of communication, that they're reaching the audience. But, but this is a bigger story now. I think for them. It's what people, what their audience cares about.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: Interesting. You know, I, I just come back from, from Thailand as you know.
[00:36:42] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:36:43] Speaker B: And I, my partner and I, we went to Louis Vuitton in Bangkok and, and Christian Dior, the new, there's a new operation there, a flagship store for Christian Dior, I think only opened last year. Louis Vuitton opened about three years ago. Anyway, we went to Louis Vuitton and we had went to their cafe, their famous cafe there. They only have six tables there and the wait list is two years long. Anyway, we managed to get in on the spot because they had a. Cancel booking. So we got in and I can tell you now it was the most expensive coffee experience I've ever paid for.
But what did sort of come through is this sort of air of ex. Just elegance, I guess you would say.
And I mean, for someone like myself, just being brutally honest, I'm happy to pay for high ticket items if I see there's a high perceived value Then again, there's brands that are out there that I can look at and say, yeah, I don't know if it's that valuable or not, but yet they can still charge exorbitant amount of money to buyers that will consume it just because it is a brand, regardless of what's behind it. And I guess what I'm. I guess what I'm trying to allude is there is a level of perceived value against non perceived value from consumers. So I guess my question to you is how do these brands create that level of value even though the product essentially is somewhat the same? You buy a bag and it's worth X amount of dollars, but you can buy another leather bag down the street that's probably made a little bit differently, but it's still the same materials.
It's probably just a different bag and different brand. So how do brands like, you know, Chanel, Christian Dior, Gucci, Louis Vuitton produce these products that have a high level of perceived value, which is why they can charge that amount of money to consumers? So what's your take on that?
[00:38:56] Speaker D: It sounds like you're just doing a bit of casual shopping in Thailand.
I.
Look, what I was trying to say in the last questioning, I think probably inarticulately was it's emotional.
I think you say, you know, what's the difference between one bag and another? It goes beyond functionality. There's an emotional appeal. It's about, you know, social status for some people, value the quality and craftsmanship. I think, you know, certain brands that I've worked with that's, you know, heritage brands, that's really, really vital because they've got this, you know, commitment to excellence. I mean, people want things that aren't going to fall apart part. That's why RM Williams is so successful that my partner is obsessed with RM Williams because they might last him five years or 10 years. And the leather's really good quality and you know, and my father was the same with Church's shoes in, in London, you know, that he never had to have them repaired.
I think men and women have very different roles here when it comes to purchases too.
But brand reputation I think is really important. Like I said, it's got a history of excellence and they can command higher prices because then consumers associate it with a bit of exclusivity and it's, you know, then there's the social state of self identity.
It's a signal of your own success. Yes, you belong to a certain group.
So. And the emotional thing, you know, it's about aspiration. But like you said, you know, you've gone into a cafe, you might not be a customer that's buying a, you know, twenty thousand dollar Louis Vuitton bag every month, but you can buy into the brand aspirationally by paying, I don't know what you pay like $30 for a cup of overpricing coffee and the rest. How much was it? I'm so curious.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: Yeah, curious, yeah, sure. I'll just be honest. So we bought two coffees and two cakes and it come to, in Australian dollars, $140.
[00:41:09] Speaker D: That's outro. Just.
And the funny thing is, but you paid it and people pay it.
[00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I, I actually said the lady, I said, and she, the customer service was next level, unbelievable. And I, I believe that was the, the massive draw card. It was just unparalleled. Anyway, I said, the lady, I said, oh, she brought it out and she gave me the, the. Because I didn't even bother asking about the prices. They just gave us the, the, the invoice at the end, the check at the end. And I, I said, I've got a question. She says, what's that? And I said, did we just drink gold?
[00:41:43] Speaker D: I was gonna ask, is there any gold leaf on it?
[00:41:47] Speaker B: Didn't she just laugh? I'm like, no, I'm serious.
[00:41:50] Speaker D: There's a place in, in Edgecliffe in Sydney and the chap that owns it, I forget what it's called, it's like a truffle house or something. And he said he's got this lady that comes in on a daily basis for a cup of coffee and I think she's in her 80s and she has a bit of gold leaf on top and it makes it like a thirty dollar coffee every day.
And it's because, you know, for her maybe she doesn't think she's got that long to live and, and she wants to just, or she's got, you know, endless oodles of cash and wants to just have a really luxury feel. So I mean it's, it's all perceived value, isn't it really?
[00:42:27] Speaker B: It is, it is, yeah. And I mean another time in Bangkok as well. I mean this is, this is more of a boutique brand. But we, we went to a restaurant and it was the most expensive restaurant I've ever spent any money on. But it was actually like the perceived value was, it was there. Like I was like, yep, I'm paying it. It was worth it.
[00:42:46] Speaker D: So higher price is often seen as a signal of higher value and prestige, Prestige you know, it's. And you do get a sense of emotional fulfillment and pleasure and indulgence from this, correct?
[00:42:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you're right. So to summarize, it very. Is an emotional attachment. It's a, it's, it's not a logical, really decision. It's more of an emotional response to what they want to experience from that brand.
[00:43:12] Speaker D: Yeah, but I mean, part of it is, is the experience you're buying a really luxury experience. But I do find a lot of it is, is emotional. Yes.
[00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, Fantastic.
Right, so the listeners that are tuning in, have you got any advice for up and coming PR companies, strategists that are in your world but are sort of breaking into the industry? What can, what advice can you personally give them? Liz?
[00:43:39] Speaker D: Well, I think again, I, like I said, I'm in the business of relationships. This is all about your network, your net worth, you know, as they say, it really is about your network and people. There are lots of different PR agencies, but people want to do business with me because it's me or with you because it's you partly, and the way you do things. Right. So however, that is for you. And some people won't want to do business with me because of the way I am or do things, but that's okay.
I think for somebody coming up through the ranks and wanting to do it, one, just do it. Just, just do it back yourself. And this is what my, my, my friend and lawyer said to me, actually. He just said, you've just got to back yourself. You don't need funding, you don't need X, Y and Z. You know, you just have to believe your own heart. And it's kind of true, actually. I think I suffer from quite a lot of imposter syndrome and self doubt. And I think, you know, and you just knock yourself and go, I've been doing this for 20 years. I've absolutely, absolutely earned a seat at this table and I know what I'm doing.
So I think it's just that confidence to kind of, you know, get yourself started, but maybe do something a little bit differently. I do find a lot of PR agencies to be quite fluffy in their approach and they're all about, you know, I'm going to get you 300 pieces of coverage. Never mind that, you know, you're selling guns and it's in Asian Bridal magazine. It needs to matter. Like for me, if I were the client, I think it helps that I've been on the brand side of things too.
And I think you just listen, listen to what the clients actually need.
Remember that you're an authoritative voice in what you do, or they would be doing it themselves, they wouldn't have hired you in the first place.
And deliver the results based on what you've kind of agreed with them strategically.
But, and never mind all the hiccups because I've been through them all, we all have. And the more you share it, actually, the more you realise you're not alone.
And I think when I set up and I was doing it alone, it's quite challenging because I say the biggest challenge for me was probably Covid, but what came out of that was I was calling people all the time, making sure they were okay and vice versa. And we got to, you know, ideate together and share things and brainstorm and that was actually really, really helpful. So I think, you know, getting out there and talking to other people, even like this, you know, interaction, this is, this is helpful for me to think about what I'm saying out loud and learning, you know, from your experience as well. So, yeah, some food for thought, hopefully.
[00:46:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. And what does the future look like for you, Liz, in terms of the business? What, what's your intention for where you want to take it? What's the idea?
[00:46:34] Speaker D: I think it's changed quite a lot along the way, which I'm sure is normal, but I've, I, I've really always kind of wanted it to be an international business one because I enjoy traveling and I think that that would be really good for me as a benefit. But because I have had that global experience and like now I'm lucky enough to be working with UK brands or overseas brands as well, because maybe they want to come over to this market and vice versa.
I think there are very few agencies I've come across that have, you know, a black book of media contacts all around the world, usually huge scale agencies to have that.
I think it's very rare. So I would quite like to do that. I've got a lot of relationships in the US and UK and Europe and here.
So that's kind of my plan is just to make it a bit more internationally focused because, you know, say I'm working with a travel brand, really, that's what they want. They, they want like a hotel client wants to reach an international consumer and I want to be able to, to help with that whole package and not have to outsource somewhere, somewhere else and manage that too. So I think that's kind of the focus for me. Just one thing at a time, but start focusing on my my international relationships and building that so I can better serve the clients.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Well, last question, out of curiosity, when you, when you're working with, with brands at any scale, do you introduce like marketing companies or other sort of experts that you need to bring in for certain projects or do you do everything in house?
[00:48:16] Speaker D: You mean like yourselves?
[00:48:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Like I said.
[00:48:21] Speaker D: I do actually and I've had the same the other way around. Yes. So I, I wouldn't say I was a social media whiz. I mean, I know what I'm doing to a degree, but. Yes. So sometimes if a client needs that, then I will outsource the social media management and design. Like graphic design?
Yes, marketing and branding. Yeah, absolutely. Just the things that it would take me a lot longer to do and I'm not necessarily an expert in that. So yes, for sure. And I've had the same. I've had other PR agencies kind of white label things to me, I've had marketing agencies, well, like yourselves, reach out to say, you know, we think this client needs some PR services on top, added value. So yeah, I think it works really nicely that way.
[00:49:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah. Well, look, Liz, that's been a fantastic conversation this morning. I think we're, we're due to wrap it up. Jared, do you have any, any other questions you wanted to discuss with Liz?
[00:49:18] Speaker C: I do have just a really quick one if we can, I suppose we can keep this quick. Just in regards to, I guess the future and I guess brand reputation, this probably comes down to personal branding for kind of bigger brands, but what are your thoughts on, I guess, crisis management around personal brands when it comes to deep fakes and you know, where AI is kind of going in and being able to, I guess, sabotage people's brand reputation in that way.
[00:49:49] Speaker D: What are my thoughts on the crisis communication, specifically with AI? Yeah.
[00:49:55] Speaker C: And I guess, you know, is that something that brands need to be concerned about or look at?
[00:50:00] Speaker D: I suppose it's more terrifying. I don't know that I've thought about that, to be honest. I do. I, when I'm doing personal pr, which I do quite frequently, I. There is a huge element of crisis communications. I mean, look at the lively and Beldoni stuff that's going on. It's fascinating me from a PR lens because I know how the media works and sometimes there's a much bigger strategy at play and you'll only see what, what they want you to see.
So it's difficult.
Like I said, I hate using the word agile all the time because it was such a Covid buzzword, but really agile. When it comes to crisis communications, you act really rapidly. Especially when I'm doing personal pr. It's usually people who are quite newsworthy and the news cycle changes of the second.
So you have to be really savvy on what's going on. I don't know about AI though. I mean that's, I have not done enough work on AI or enough research really to be of any huge help here. But that. You've just scared me.
[00:51:14] Speaker B: We actually said to you before we start, started recording, we said we won't put you on the spot and essentially Jared's put you on the spot because.
[00:51:21] Speaker D: Now my head's just going like, oh my God. Do I really to think about that? Well, it's funny because sometimes I see on LinkedIn someone will put like an AI video of themselves and things like it is getting a lot more clever where you go, well, how, how on earth do I know if that's that real person?
[00:51:37] Speaker C: Yeah, like a great example would be I was just, I had my TV on the day and YouTube was on and an ad came on and it was Russell Crowe and I kind of wasn't really listening but I could kind of hear his voice and I was like, okay. Yep. And he then went on to. It was kind of a long form format too. I think it looked like it was about 15 to 20 minutes of this ad. I just kind of let it play. I mean it took me a, or maybe a minute until I realized that it wasn't real. But it was pretty spot on. Like you've probably seen some of the, the fake ones out there, but there would be so many people, especially now because it's emerging that, you know, would fall for that. And it's also interesting that the platforms allowing and haven't flagged.
[00:52:13] Speaker D: Yeah, well, they've deliberately allowed it now. Well, I would say get a lawyer.
It's with anything that, you know, anything that's been out in the press or anything that's slanderous. You, they're going to have a press team and they're going to have legal representation, these people. So I would, you know this, there's still laws that you can't break and maybe they will need to be slightly amended to introduce stuff with AI, I'm sure. But yeah, I, I, I'm now going to look into it.
[00:52:54] Speaker B: Well, it's fascinating.
Well, yeah. Liz, I just want to say thanks for, thanks for being here today. Number one, it's been great to have you on and great to be hearing more about your story. As, as you and I both know, we've known each other for quite some time. It's just good to hear a lot of the intricacies and, and things that you've done in the past. And, and I guess for the listeners that are tuning in your level of knowledge and expert expertise in, in the industry, but also with the brands in luxury and lifestyle, I think it's a lot of value in that and I think a lot of listeners would get a chunk of insights to that. So thanks for sharing all that too.
[00:53:32] Speaker D: Oh, here's hoping. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
[00:53:36] Speaker B: All right. Actually, there's one last question we always ask our listeners. You probably heard other podcasts. What one question could you ask or could the audience ask themselves in their journey right now that can help them break through whatever challenge they're going through on a business level or personal level?
[00:53:55] Speaker D: I always say, I think it's, for me, it's always back to what am I solving for? Like with anything, even if you're having an argument with somebody, what am I solving for? You know, like, again, this is why with clients, I said, what are your objectives? Because if you don't come back to that, I don't know how you can really create a strategy or a plan around anything. And I have to quite frequently do this too. I have to go back and revisit my strategic plan that I've done for DOY npr. It changes all the time and that's okay. And my remit when I was at Richmond was to write five year plans for businesses. And some people now would laugh at a five year plan. However, there's a reason why the Richmond groups or the caring groups and the LVMHs of the world are so successful because everything comes back to that plan. It just gets redefined every year.
So I think that that is the number one question that I would ask myself and just keep asking it as you go and things change so that, you know, you're really dedicated to, to that trajectory, you know, throughout your career.
[00:55:00] Speaker B: Great. And for everyone that is listening, where can they find you? Liz?
[00:55:06] Speaker D: My home address.
[00:55:09] Speaker B: Well, you don't want to share that one, though.
[00:55:11] Speaker D: No, I've just moved house, so I, you know, rather not.
But it's, well, I guess I'm doy npr.com today you d o y e n pr.com au is probably the best. And then you can get in touch with me that way or on socials, on dompr, on Instagram.
[00:55:29] Speaker B: Fantastic. All right, guys. Well, thank you for tuning in. As Liz just said here, if you want to reach out to her, please do so. There's a lot of knowledge and expertise that she can help you with, especially in PR and helping your brand get more visibility, helping you get your brand out there and to the right demographic, the right people. So if you want to reach out to her, all you got to do is go to www.dotpr with an e.com or reach out to her on socials doyen PR. Thank you again guys. And if you feel on our level that you need some guidance and support in regards to creating a new strategy for growth, you can reach out to us@timeless creative.com boardroom. Until next time, thank you again and we'll see you all very soon.
[00:56:14] Speaker A: You've been listening to the Brand Alchemy podcast with your hosts Jared Asher and Jared Break. For more information or to request your spot as a guest speaker, go to www.timelesscreative.com.
